Transcript of Taking Relationship Marketing to the Next Level

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John Jantsch: This episode of the Duct Tape Advertising and marketing Podcast is delivered to you by ZeroBounce, an electronic mail validation system that integrates with all the key ESPs to ensure, hey, your mail doesn’t bounce. Test it out at

John Jantsch: Whats up, and welcome to a different episode of the Duct Tape Advertising and marketing Podcast. That is John Jantsch, and my visitor in the present day is Zvi Band. He’s the Co-Founder and CEO of the CRM platform, Contactually. He’s additionally the creator of a guide we’re going to speak about in the present day, Success Is in Your Sphere: Leverage the Power of Relationships to Achieve Your Business Goals.

John Jantsch: So, welcome to the present, Zvi.

Zvi Band: John, thanks a lot for having me on in the present day.

John Jantsch: So, I’m going to begin with a tough query. Numerous occasions we simply do some heat up, however I’m going proper after a tough query for you.

Zvi Band: Let’s do it.

John Jantsch: You then’re free to say the reply is each. However, would it not be protected to say that you’ve got discovered a ton about networking from, you recognize, the ability customers of Contactually? Or would it not be protected to say that you just wrote this guide, as a result of individuals nonetheless don’t get easy methods to community?

Zvi Band: Each.

John Jantsch: I assumed it was going to be laborious. Anytime a visitor hesitates like that, I do know I’ve requested a tough query.

Zvi Band: Yeah. I imply, nicely, I hate to say, I felt like I might fairly simply reply that. I used to be checking, like wait, is there a obtained you in there? Yeah, I imply, pay attention, you recognize, we wrote the guide, you recognize, for these two causes, you recognize? I might say it’s type of, you recognize, the reverse in that, so many individuals, you recognize, within the seven half years that we’ve been operating Contactually, so many individuals had been coming to us saying, “Hey, I get easy methods to use your software program, however how do I develop my enterprise with relationships?” Proper?

Zvi Band: It’s virtually like, you recognize, I’ve used this earlier than. It’s virtually like we’re giving a chef’s knife to somebody who didn’t know easy methods to prepare dinner. So we realized, and the aim of the guide is to primarily, you recognize, educate individuals easy methods to prepare dinner, educate individuals easy methods to develop your enterprise leveraging relationships, easy methods to apply technique behind it. The content material for the guide got here from, you recognize, observing how, you recognize, tens of hundreds of pros who’ve been in a position to efficiently develop their enterprise, you recognize, by way of relationships. So, it went hand in hand collectively.

John Jantsch: Yeah, yeah. I’m certain you probably did observe some individuals doing issues that you just hadn’t considered that had been fairly cool makes use of.

Zvi Band: Oh yeah, completely. I imply, there are issues which might be completely counterintuitive that even got here throughout within the guide. Like this notion of the Ben Franklin impact that, you recognize, with a view to construct rapport with somebody, you recognize, that you just really requested them for a favor. That’s one thing I’d by no means even heard of or considered. I didn’t notice, and it was solely type of after, once more, after years and years of years of doing this, and we spent 4 years, you recognize, researching and writing the guide.

Zvi Band: However the largest blocker for individuals is basically consistency, is like they type of can get what to do, however they’re not in a position to personally act on it. So it was all of these items, and it was such a present scripting this guide, and such an awesome journey.

John Jantsch: So, possibly for these folks that aren’t acquainted with Contactually, you recognize, I exploit the time period generically CRM platform. However possibly you could possibly set the desk for a way you’re feeling Contactually is totally different than what many individuals would possibly consider as a typical CRM platform.

Zvi Band: Yeah, completely. So, I imply, when most individuals take into consideration CRM’s, they give it some thought in a gross sales context, often a transactional sale, proper? I’m making an attempt to get somebody from one finish of the funnel to the opposite, to them being a buyer or them being completely disqualified, and that’s it. However for those who’re in a relationship-driven enterprise, it’s not essentially enthusiastic about simply the transaction, it’s about that general relationship, proper?

Zvi Band: You recognize, an actual property agent, for instance, will get most of their enterprise by way of individuals they’ve labored with of their previous, or individuals they already know. You recognize, you and I as consultants, you recognize, and we get our most talking alternatives from individuals in our sphere of affect, individuals in our community. So it’s vital to nurture these relationships on an ongoing foundation, not simply type of, you recognize, one time push them by means of a course of.

Zvi Band: So, the best way that we take into consideration Contactually, is it’s every little thing’s in regards to the relationship, not in regards to the deal. So some individuals name us like your contact supervisor on steroids. Positive, you possibly can give it some thought. However it’s as a substitute of pondering like, all proper, if an important asset in your enterprise isn’t essentially the offers in your pipeline, however the relationships in your database, that’s what Contactually has actually been specializing in.

John Jantsch: So, one of many issues I feel that’s been humorous over the previous few years is … as a result of as you described, type of this relationship I feel, and my father was a bag carrying, you recognize, gross sales individual that had his accounts. I imply, actually had his relationships, as a result of they had been completely happy to see him. They did see him, you recognize, as soon as 1 / 4, you recognize, that type of factor.

John Jantsch: So I imply, the concept of specialty for salespeople, you recognize, treasuring these relationships, I feel that’s at all times been an enormous deal. What I feel is type of attention-grabbing is that know-how has really made it, I feel, tougher in some methods, I ought to say the best way we use know-how, has really made it tougher in some methods to have what you name intentional relationships.

Zvi Band:  Oh, yeah. No, you’re completely spot on. I imply, I feel we’re dwelling on this completely superb world the place we are able to work with anybody all over the world, however it additionally signifies that our prospects, you recognize, and the individuals that may in any other case be working with us, can work with anybody all over the world too. In order that data hole is gone, as a result of, you recognize, the shoppers I work with can clearly know greater than us. That expertise hole is gone, as a result of, you recognize, we’re now not that distinctive particular person in our trade or in our neighborhood that has that skillset.

Zvi Band: In order that repute turns into all of the extra vital. However the issue is, is that, you recognize, whereas we could be so linked with so many individuals, you recognize, most social platforms are geared round getting us to have, you recognize, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 LinkedIn connections or Twitter followers, or issues like that. Nicely, which means we’re going a mile broad and an inch deep, as a result of the human thoughts can solely keep in mind a lot details about so many individuals in there.

John Jantsch: Yeah. I see, I’m not going to level fingers at any generations or something of that nature, however I see, you recognize, people scrolling by means of their cellphone, you recognize, like, like, like, like, like, you recognize, 300 a day. It’s like, is that engagement? You recognize, are we actually doing something with that? I imply, so, let me ask you, on this intentional relationship sport, I imply, what’s the position of social media?

Zvi Band: Yeah, and also you’re proper. I imply, there’s part of this guide that’s type of seemingly come out of that, you recognize, our intent can be simply to assist individuals rebuild these social expertise, proper? I don’t essentially know my neighbor in addition to I do. You recognize, somebody who’s, you recognize, internationally. So it’s no shock that Cigna launched survey outcomes. They surveyed 20,000 adults age 18 and over in the US, and most American adults are thought of lonely, which is loopy on this world the place I’m surrounded by these social objects.

Zvi Band: However I see it, you recognize, I see it in myself, you recognize? Open up, you recognize, Fb and I’ll flip by means of, and, you recognize, I noticed like, I don’t learn about any of them. It’s type of that, you recognize, that take a look at on social media of, you recognize, choose any random, you recognize, LinkedIn or Fb contact, and actually ask your self like, “All proper, do I do know this particular person nicely sufficient that in the event that they reached out to me and requested for $20, would I lend it to them? Or vice versa, if I had been able the place I wanted $20 hastily, would they be keen to present it to me, proper?”

Zvi Band: So, yeah, I feel the vital factor with social media is to make use of that as a supply of knowledge, to then establish what are the relationships, or what’s happening with the individuals I care about, after which just remember to’re going deep sufficient past only a like or remark right here and there.

John Jantsch: So, there have been plenty of books written on networking, and I feel that … nicely, let me ask you, how would you differentiate relationship constructing and typical networking?

Zvi Band: Yeah, completely. I feel they’re positively very intently associated. What networking or what do individuals consider networking? You recognize, let’s be trustworthy. They give thought to, you recognize, the extra the act of going out and constructing new relationships, proper? You recognize, whether or not it’s connecting with individuals on LinkedIn or you recognize, going into type of, you recognize, a poorly lit room or convention CEO ballroom and buying and selling enterprise playing cards, and making an attempt to create internet new relationships.

Zvi Band: What relationship advertising and marketing is extra targeted on as nicely, how do I develop my enterprise or obtain the targets I’m making an attempt to hit, leveraging the relationships I have already got? You recognize, what we oftentimes miss out on is that, you recognize, the very best relationships and probably the most worthwhile ones, are often those that we’re already linked to, you recognize, relate to networking.

Zvi Band: You recognize, one difficulty I had when early on in my profession, and I nonetheless encounter on occasion, as a result of I’m not excellent too, is, you recognize, you’ll go to a convention and also you’ll do plenty of networking, and also you’ll change enterprise playing cards with individuals, and also you’re like, “Nice, I’ve all these new connections.” You set these enterprise playing cards in your again pocket, and the subsequent time you see these enterprise playing cards is whenever you’re fishing them out of the laundry machine, as a result of, you recognize, you didn’t even take them out of your pocket, proper?

Zvi Band: In order that’s type of the difficulty that we face today. That’s why relationship advertising and marketing is that technique behind leveraging the relationships that you have already got in your sphere not directly.

John Jantsch: Nicely, and it’s attention-grabbing, you’ve used the phrase leverage a number of occasions, and I used to be gonna ask about that particularly, as a result of, I imply, I feel all people is aware of this. Our present prospects, for instance, are in all probability a better supply of recent enterprise, so long as they’re completely happy, than, you recognize, that world on the market that we need to go searching for. However all people likes the brand new chase, or it feels that method anyway.

John Jantsch: I imply, how can we get … as a result of right here’s the premise of my query, as a result of it’s laborious to take care of these relationships. I imply, it takes work. You possibly can’t simply, you recognize, cellphone it in. I imply, a powerful relationship is constructed on caring, on checking in, on, you recognize, having a rhythm. So, how do you get the leverage to place within the work that it takes? As a result of, you recognize, it doesn’t essentially really feel like, “Oh, I’m going to get a sale or I’m not going to get a sale.” It’s like, “No, I’m doing this as a result of some level down the street this can be vital.”

Zvi Band: Yeah, no, that’s a extremely nice query. I feel, and let’s face it, you recognize, and if anybody had been to learn the guide, and also you have a look at anybody specific step, this isn’t rocket science, proper? We’re not doing trigonometry right here. That is very fundamental type of human interplay. The rationale why it’s so laborious, per your level, is that, you recognize, as human beings, you recognize, we’re wired, you recognize, to search for these quick time period features, proper?

Zvi Band: This goes again to, you recognize, us as, you recognize, caveman, proper? The place we had to consider how can we put meals in our bellies now and discover shelter now? In any other case we’re useless meat, proper? These are the large challenges that we face today, is that nicely, you recognize, our wants proper now are taking good care of, however these longterm advantages, that’s what we’re actually like, you recognize, have to be specializing in.

Zvi Band: So yeah, in fact we’re far more within the lead that simply got here in, as a result of that is perhaps enterprise tomorrow, versus a previous consumer that won’t transact with us for 3 or 4 years, subsequently I’m a lot much less prone to be eager about that. That’s why it’s no shock, and the Nationwide Affiliation of Realtors publishes data. They are saying that 88% of shoppers say that they work with their agent once more, however whenever you have a look at the observe up stats, solely 12% of shoppers will use the identical agent they used earlier than. So what’s taking place in that large hole? What’s taking place, is that years go by and there’s no observe up.

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John Jantsch: Okay, right here’s the … I’m making an attempt to determine easy methods to phrase this query with out it sounding as dangerous because it in all probability will. You recognize, I’ve obtained 100 contacts that I want to remain in contact with, however I simply don’t have the time to remain in contact with them the best way I’d wish to. How do I decide about who’s value spending time on? See, I informed you it’s going to sound horrible.

Zvi Band: Yeah, yeah. At first, by way of why it sounds horrible. I feel, you recognize, we oftentimes have this icky issue. Like, oh, you recognize, hastily if I’m treating these individuals as belongings. Let’s face it, you recognize, we solely have a lot time on Earth and we need to ensure that we’re focusing our efforts across the folks that, you recognize, not solely can present worth to us, however the folks that we could be of service to, that we consider that we will help, the folks that give us plenty of vitality.

Zvi Band: You recognize, one of many ways in which I typically categorize individuals is, I have a look at individuals, and if I get off the cellphone with them and I simply can’t stand talking with them. Nicely, these are individuals, I don’t care how vital they could be, these are folks that I select to not encompass myself with, you recognize? However, in reality, and that is one thing that we discuss within the guide the place, you recognize, it’s not essentially going by, you recognize, whether or not they’re vital or not, however it’s as a substitute like taking a step again and asking ourselves, “Nicely, you recognize, what am I targets? You recognize, what am I actually making an attempt to attain?” Then beginning to determine, “Okay, who’re the forms of individuals that may assist me with these targets?” Then specializing in these forms of individuals, proper?

Zvi Band: For me, for instance, as a CEO for Contactually, you recognize, for numerous years I used to be very targeted on fundraising. So very clearly, plenty of my time was targeted on, not solely partaking and networking with buyers, but in addition with founders who might give me introductions to different buyers.

Zvi Band: Swiftly, that was a aim that was deprioritized. So I used to be in a position to begin phasing that out and cease partaking much less and fewer with buyers and different founders, and focus far more on my prospects, as a result of buyer retention was far more vital for me. So I feel so long as we take a step again and attempt to determine what our targets are, then of these 100 or so individuals, we are able to higher establish which of these individuals match into these buckets.

John Jantsch: So, you talked about on the outset this concept of the Ben Franklin strategy or concept, that truly asking for assist was an effective way to type of be a bridge to relationship constructing. Broaden on that slightly bit, as a result of I feel lots of people really feel like, “Oh, if I’m asking any individual for assist, you recognize, they don’t owe me something. You recognize, how do I begin there?” You’re suggesting that it’s really the opposite method round.

Zvi Band: Yeah, it’s really humorous. I imply, so associated to truly fundraising, one of many piece of recommendation that I obtained very early on was if you’d like cash, ask for recommendation. In order for you cash or for those who ask for cash, you’re going to get recommendation as a substitute. That’s positively what I had seen as nicely. So, the attention-grabbing factor, yeah, for those who learn Benjamin Franklin’s autobiography, you recognize, somewhat than making an attempt to win a political adversary over by being good, Franklin requested him for a favor simply to borrow a uncommon guide. Then after the person invested effort in Franklin by delivering this guide, the 2 find yourself turning into buddies.

Zvi Band: It’s laborious to determine type of, you recognize, what the actual cause is for, or what the actual cause behind. However it’s extra enthusiastic about … it’s additionally referred to as the Ikea impact, in that for those who put effort and time into doing one thing, you’re far more invested in that. Identical to for those who spend, you recognize, an hour strolling round Ikea, you’re not gonna stroll out empty handed, since you’ve achieved it. So, you recognize, that’s why asking somebody for recommendation, one thing occurs, proper, in that like, okay, we’re displaying that we respect that particular person, we respect the recommendation, we solicit their data. That’s a worthwhile expertise to that particular person.

John Jantsch: Nicely, we’re additionally maybe suggesting that we consider they’ve that data and that they’re good, and that they’ve that recommendation. So I feel there are in all probability plenty of issues in there. I can simply state, and I don’t know if I’ve ever acknowledged on the present earlier than, I’ve by no means been into an Ikea, and I’m hoping to maintain that streak alive.

John Jantsch: So, I get plenty of, or numerous solicitations. I wouldn’t even name them solicitations, connections, let’s say, on LinkedIn. One of many first issues they recommend is, what can I do for you? You recognize, what can I do that will help you? On the floor, that to me, any individual informed them that that was an excellent relationship constructing instrument, however on the floor it comes off very destructive to me, as a result of I don’t know that particular person. They haven’t advised something that particular, so I don’t even know what they may assist me, you recognize, with.

John Jantsch: So, do you’ve the same expertise? I do know lots of people on LinkedIn do, as a result of that simply has turn into form of a standard factor for individuals to do. It looks like when individuals make connection requests. So, how might we try this higher?

Zvi Band: Yeah. I wrestle with this, since you’re proper, I’ve the identical visceral response when somebody says, “Hey, how can I assist you?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I might use a refill of my drink possibly, proper?” What are you actually making an attempt to supply? In actual fact, you’re making me do extra work by making an attempt to consider what I need assistance on and the way that particular person might assist out.

Zvi Band: However I imply, the attention-grabbing factor is, it’s rooted in good intentions, and that, you recognize, they’re making an attempt to be, you recognize, significant and worthwhile to us not directly. However you’re proper. I imply, that’s the place, you recognize, I feel one of many key elements of relationship advertising and marketing is to attempt to establish and be proactive, by way of figuring out what individuals really need and what individuals would profit from, after which fixing that.

Zvi Band: Now in fact, you possibly can ask, you recognize, very pointed questions, you recognize, as you’re speaking with somebody for his or her first time, you could possibly discuss what your enterprise challenges are. I like that [inaudible 00:19:32], you recognize, throws out the champagne query. You recognize, if we’re celebrating with a bottle of champagne a 12 months from now, what are we celebrating? That’s type of an excellent open-ended query.

Zvi Band: However, plenty of the work, you recognize, goes into simply gaining that intelligence on somebody and making an attempt to grasp how one can be useful. For me, for instance, you recognize, with the guide popping out, you recognize, one factor that I’ve seen just a few individuals attain out and do proactively is that they’ll write a assessment on-line. As a result of they type of know that, “Okay, that’s one thing that Zvi in all probability would profit from.” I’ve clearly achieved the identical factor too.

Zvi Band: So, you’re proper, it’s the lazy man’s strategy to have the ability to simply type of say, “Hey, how can I assist you? And possibly I’ll have the ability to do one thing about it.” It’s come a very totally different expertise to determine the place you possibly can add worth, and do it for them proactively.

John Jantsch: Yeah, if I’m feeling significantly snarky, I write, “Nicely, ship me $500.”

Zvi Band: Have you ever obtained it but?

John Jantsch: Nicely, I delete it. I don’t ever ship that, however I’ve tried. I imply, plenty of what you find yourself speaking about is, you recognize, staying in contact. I imply, having a, you recognize, a plan to just remember to’re not utterly, you recognize, out of thoughts. However, how do you develop a rhythm that is sensible? I do know that that’s a, nicely, it relies upon … However, you recognize, is there a rhythm of staying in contact that, as a common rule it’s best to take into consideration at least?

Zvi Band: Yeah, and also you’re proper. That is I might say in all probability the meat of what we talked about, and truthfully why I wrote a guide, in that there are such a lot of scattered greatest practices and good concepts. So what we’ve spoken about thus far on this dialog, you recognize, there are in all probability lots of people saying, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do know.” Nodding your head. However it’s are you able to assemble that right into a cohesive technique that you would be able to function regularly?

Zvi Band: That’s the purpose of the capital technique, and that all level, you recognize, nothing is groundbreaking, however it’s, are you able to try this constantly? So, for instance, it does begin off with, all proper, you recognize, can you block time in your calendar? Or discover a way of doing this on a repetitive foundation? You recognize, whether or not it’s having reminders or triggers or one thing that you just’re doing regularly.

Zvi Band: However to reply your level round, you recognize, ensuring that we’re staying in contact with individuals, you recognize, on a periodic foundation, clearly there’s the power to these days, whether or not it’s utilizing LinkedIn or Google alerts, or one thing like that, simply to type of preserve a prize of them and their enterprise. You recognize, whether or not they’re talked about within the information, one thing about their firm talked about, or possibly you see, you recognize, one thing about crusing and you discover which of your contacts are eager about crusing. After all triggers like that occur.

Zvi Band: However then, you recognize, one of many root questions is, “Nicely, how typically ought to I observe up with individuals?” There’s no proper or fallacious reply. Going again to our level round, you recognize, “Hey, if I’ve 100 individuals, how typically ought to I keep in contact with them?” Nicely, you recognize, naturally as you’re prioritizing relationships, those which might be greater precedence and hopefully fewer quantity, you’re in a position to spend extra time on. Those which might be decrease in precedence and hopefully extra of, you’re in a position to keep in contact much less typically.

Zvi Band: We’d wish to say pay attention, you recognize, push come to shove, you recognize, say, “Hey, I need to observe up with, you recognize, my, you recognize, excessive precedence contacts a minimum of as soon as 1 / 4 and ones are decrease precedence yearly.” That appears to be based mostly on, you recognize, simply watching, you recognize, tens of hundreds of individuals in Contactually, that appears to be an excellent common baseline, after which you possibly can tweak from there.

John Jantsch: Zvi, it was nice catching up with you, and speaking about Success Is in Your Sphere. So I respect you dropping by the Duct Tape Advertising and marketing Podcast. Inform individuals the place they will discover out extra about you and your work, and the guide, in fact.

Zvi Band: John, it’s at all times nice chatting with you. Sure, you possibly can go browsing, to any bookstore, or wherever books are bought, and simply do a fast seek for Success Is in Your Sphere, and also you’ll have the ability to discover data. Be at liberty to purchase a replica for your self or for somebody you care about, or possibly don’t care about. All proceeds go to charity. After all, my identify is band Zvi Band, Z-V-I, B-A-N-D. Fortunately I’m the one Zvi Band on the market, so it’s fairly simple to search out me.

John Jantsch: The URL was accessible too. So, Zvi, respect, once more, you stopping by, and hopefully we’ll run into you quickly on the market on the street.

Zvi Band: Thanks a lot, John.

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